Conflict Konzi in MA abgesagt/ Mitglied ist ein Vergewaltiger

Mein Ihr nicht, daß das eher eine Szene-Info ist? 99% der Indy-User wissen wahrscheinlich weder, was das für eine Musikgruppe ist, noch was das für ein Jugendzentrum ist.

da bist du vergewaltigt worden und rennst von Pontius zu Pilatus,während dich profesionelle Psychospezialisten am Wickel haben,erzählst es Fremden auf der straße,damit es überhaupt einer weiß,und der Typ arbeitet und studiert.Und Macht Musik und Macht Theorie und dann gehst du auf ein Konzert und er steht auf der Bühne.Vergewaltigung :nach wieviel Jahren verjährt ,und nach wieviel Jahren politisch nicht mehr verwertbar ?
Und der Krieg ist wichtiger und die Kinder solen es nicht mitkriegen und die MitwisserInnen triumphieren :eine weniger in der Konkurrenz.Nee,das ist kein Szeneinfo.

das ist doch jetzt schon zigmal hier gepostet worden...

Unglaublich, dass sich solche Leute noch "links" nennen

Wenn ich lese, dass 2003 ein Konzert einer Gruppe nicht stattfinden kann, weil ein Bandmitglied vor 12 Jahren (!) eine Frau vergewaltigt hat, dann frage ich mich, wie die "Verhinderer" damit leben wollen, dass von den (daran beteiligten) Deutschen (insb. von ihrem Staat) vor etwa 55 Jahren etwa 55 Millionen Menschen in Krieg und Vernichtungslagern getötet und ermordet wurden.

Wenn es also der JUZ-Versammlung nicht möglich ist, zu vegeben oder wenigstens einigermassen "ruhig zu bleiben", dann wie soll ein soziales Zusammenleben in Mannheim, in Deutschland, in Russland, in Israel und auf der Welt überhaupt möglich sein?

Die Fähigkeit zu vergeben, zu vergessen, sich von schlechten Erfahrungen zu trennen, scheint eine Eigenschaft zu sein, die ihr offenbar nicht sonderlich schätzt.

Wäre da keine Szene-Ino wäre sie so geschrieben, daß es auch Leuter ausserhalb der radikalen Linken in Mannheim anspricht. Tut es aber nicht.

Ausserdem nervt es, daß dieser Text mehrmals gepostet wird.

ich persönlich hätte auch nicht lust mit so einem typen ein konzert zu machen. hab mit vielen bands konzerte gemacht bei so einer story kann mensch sich doch nicht mehr auf das konzert freuen....

...macker in den hacker...

"Mitglied ist ein Vergewaltiger" - so heißt es in der Überschrift in reißerischer Form.

Es gibt eigentlich einen Rechtsgrundsatz, den frau, auch wenn sie ansonsten unseren Staat durchaus ablehnt, hier berücksichtigen sollte: Jeder Verdächtige gilt solange als unschuldig, bis seine Schuld bewiesen ist.

Würde man diesen Grundsatz nicht mehr beherzigen, könnte jederfrau jeden anderen Menschen irgendeiner Tat bezichtigen und er oder sie wäre dann erledigt...

Also:
Das besagte Bandmitglied Marshall hat den "Vorfall" immer abgestritten. Nach Anfragen unsererseits, gab es weder von Conflict noch von Marshall irgendeine Reaktion.
Es existiert eine eindeutige Erklärung der damaligen "Steffi" BewohnerInnen.
Entweder ihr glaubt einem mutmaßlichen Vergewaltiger, der die Tat abstreitet, oder der Frau, die sagt dass sie vergewaltigt wurde. Für uns ist die Entscheidung eindeutig und ohne Alternative.

Das Definitionsrecht liegt alleine bei der Frau !!!!
Sexismus bekämpfen!!

PS : Sexismus geht ALLE an !!! OK ?

Ich zitiere: "Niemand ausser der Betroffenen selbst hat das Recht über die erlebte Gewalt zu urteilen". So, so: Abgesehen davon, daß die Tat 12 Jahre her ist, scheint es außer den beiden Beteiligten keine weiteren Zeugen zu geben, wobei der Mann alles rundheraus abstreitet. Aber nachfragen ist ja laut euch verboten.
Tut mir leid: Nach dem Maßstab, den ihr (siehe Zitat) anlegt, öffnet ihr falschen Beschuldigungen Tür und Tor. Und das ist ja Anfang der neunziger Jahre während der Sexismushysterie auch zur Genüge geschehen.
Bei euch hackts. Euer Rechtsverständnis ist mittelalterlich. Lest mal Arthur Millers Theaterstück Hexenjagd wohin es führt, wenn Anschuldigungen grundsätzlich nicht überprüft werden dürfen.

80-er jahre debatte für profilierungssüchtige. löschen.

super das ihr das konzert abgesagt und den typen öffentlich gemacht habt. da das definitionsrecht der
frau in der linken immer mehr untergeht sind solche aktionen immer noch ein kleiner hoffnungsschimmer.
wie schlecht es um feministische forderungen in der "Linken"
steht zeigen ja schon wieder mal die reaktionen hier auf indymedia. (und auch, daß sie nicht gelöscht werden)

Hallo liebe FreundInnen!

Auch ich verurteile jegliche Form von Vergewaltigung: körperliche wie auch seelische! Zu letzterer gehört auch Rufmord!

Mir liegt eine eindeutige und detaillierte Stellungnahme des Beschuldigten Marshall Penn sowie auch der Band Conflict vor.

Darin werden diese Vergewaltigungsvorwürfe zumindest für mich glaubhaft abgestritten!

Die Anschuldigungen kamen demnach auch nicht von der Frau selber, sondern aus deren Umfeld (z.B. des abwesenden Freundes...), namentlich dazu stehen wollte dazu natürlich niemand!

Klingt alles irgendwie nach verkorkster Affaire, jeder Menge übler Nachrede, nicht aber nach Gewalt! Der Marshall Penn hat zahlreiche ehrliche Versuche der Klärung unternommen, ohne Erfolg.

Wie soll man auch reden mit Leuten, die die Wahrheit gepachtet haben und sich als Gesinnungsdiktatoren aufführen!

Mit Lügen und Intrigen lässt sich keine bessere Welt aufbauen! Und allein beim Schlagwort "Vergewaltigung" das Gehirn abzustellen und in Hysterie zu verfallen hilft auch nicht!

Es bleibt die Frage: Woher kommen solche Kampagnen und wem nützen sie?

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Imre



Hier die originalen Statements:

Marshall Penn
2/4 New King Street
Deptford SE8 5HS
autumn 1994


I Have had a meeting with all the english people that were there in Steffi and we managed to make an accurate diary of events that happened there. (the people that were there are willing to swear to this under oath)

14 July 91
Back to the planet arrive at Steffi.
We play the gig that night and retire a the end of the evening

15 July 91
Some of us (including myself) go to Stuttgart to collect Ben Raine . In the afternoon I started talking with Tina in the courtyard and drinking with her. When it is dark we go to her friends room which is near the bands dormitory. After a few hours drinking I fall asleep, Tina nowhere to be seen.

16th July 91
In the eve/late afternoon there is a big outdoor dinner with lots of the residents on the outdoor tables. Later in the evening, about 11 o'clock, there is a group of us talking in the 1st floor kitchen. Among this group are Carl Hendrickse, Alex Holland, Henry Cullen, Ben Raine, myself and Tina. We were making conversation until 3 in the morning. The last people to go to bed were Henry Cullen and Tina.

17th July 91
We leave in the morning. Some people see us off, amongst them Tina.

20th July 91
Back to the planet return to stay at Steffi again for one night.

21st July 91
We leave Steffi again in the morning.

1. If I had raped Tina why was she making ordinary conversation with me and my friends the following day?
2. Everyone that was there in the van remembers Tina seeing us off
3. Is it really true that among 40 people that lived there at the time there was nobody who Tina could tell about her terrible rape? NOBODY??

Nobody in Steffi is remembering this, nobody in Steffi has any reason to want to remember this. They all assume the worse and that Tina must be right. I cannot let this be. If I am shouting on deaf ears then I must shout on deaf ears forever. I have been a victim of reverse sexism. Please do not ignore me, I do not deserve it.



autumn 1994

This statement is in reference to an incident that is alleged to have happened at the commune "STEFFI" in Karlsruhe in July 1991

My name is Marshall Penn. I used to play with the band 'Back to the Planet'. I am 31 years old, have a 7 year old daughterand have spet all of my adoult life in the left wing/alternative scene in England.
On 14th July 1991 Back to the Planet played at 'Steffi' in Karlsruhe, Germany, as part of our second tour in that country. Six months later I learned from Rheinhart Vinkelau, the tour manager of that tour, that the boyfriend of Tina, the alleged victim, was alleging that I had raped her while she was there. It seemed preposterous that it could be taken seriously but I wrote to 'Steffi' refuting the allegation. My letter was returned, unopened, and enquiries I made to friends who are on the alternative scene in Germany seemed to suggest that it was not being taken seriously by the commune as a whole.
Last year I arranged a tour for my band 'Experiment' with Kieselcore of Rendsburg and on my arrival in germany contacted Steffi with a view to meeting with them. This was not to be, as threats of violence were the only answer to my protestations.

These are the FACTS of the case:

14th July 1991
Bttp arrive at Steffi and play a gig

15th
In the afternoon myself and Tina start talking and drinking in the courtyard. As the sun set Tina produced a bottle of wine and we relocated to her friends room.

16th
In the evening there is a big outdoor meal. Later, 11 o'clock, the band, Rheinhart, Alex Holland (manager) and Tina sit around in the upstairs kitchen chatting until at least 2 a.m. Various members of the household go to and fro, and wolf and Christoff Mader who was Rheinhart's contact for the gig.

17th
We leave Steffi for gigs further south.

20th
We return to Steffi to stay one more night as it is well placed to stopover on the long haul back up to Metelen, the last date of the tour.

21st
We leave for Metelen

I hereby state that no sexual contact of any kind occurred between myself and anyone at Steffi on the 15th July or at any time we were there.

I maintain that the people of Steffi have acted in the same way as every fascist oppressor has done throughout history by:

1. Thinking that their justice is the only justice.
2. Refusing to hear any that might speak against their judgement.
3. Preferring to champion the politics of hearsay, when the facts show that amore truthful investigation is merited.
4. Resorting to violence as an answer to peaceful dispute.

I have been the victim in this unpleasant charade, a victim of reverse sexism and bigotry.
Last year I asked the people of Steffi for a trial and was prepared to come and be tried by a tribunal of Steffi residents, whatever the consequences. This year, on the 3rd of June, I came to Karlsruhe again tried to find, on the phone, someone who was only interested in beating me up...
One person, a girl/woman by the name of Alexei listened to me for 25 minutes but advised me strongly against a personal appearance.

I am not nor have ever been a rapist.
I challenge Steffi to live up to the politics that they preach
Marshall Penn



APRIL 2003

Well where do I start?

1) I went to Karlsruhe with my mother when I was driving to Italy once. My mother was angry that I had never been given the chance to air my disagreement with the people at Steffi, who were responsible for completely making me look like a bastard in the whole of Europe, so she went in to argue the toss. She managed to speak to a few people for a while until two or three people effectively shouted her down and told her to go away.

2) The people of Steffi had my address for all the time that I lived in Deptford (2-3 years), as i put it on every letter that I wrote to them, which was many. Why did they not visit me? If it was a reverse situation (i.e. a female member of our clan who had been raped) then at the very least there would be an attempt at a visit from us! If the white South Africans who raped my Girlfriend were living back in PieterMaritzburg I would readily go to Kwazulu-Natal and pay a few grand for them to be crippled, however corrupt that may seem.

3) I spoke to an Australian Punk, in 1997, who said that his girlfriend had been in Germany and that the girl had finally been discredited, after finally there was so much pressure from interested parties wanting to know the truth.

4) I also went to Spain with back to the planet. While we were there our gearbox broke and we spent a week on a spanish hillside. There was a German guy there who (later on) lived at the KOB. He saw me for that week and became reasonably aware in that social situation of what I was like. When Experiment went to the KOB to play, some years later, he was deliberately excluded from a commune meeting about whether or not Experiment should be allowed to play there, because he didn't think there was enough truth in the allegation to take it seriously, having spent a week wth me and the planets (a large party of 12 people including The Dave Howard Singers) on this spanish hillside. He had a right to a voice in the meeting, being a member, but the meeting was held when they knew that he wasn't present.

5) What happened that evening?
Me and Tina talked mostly about politics, covering a vast range of topics, e.g. globalisation to pollution, politics of greed in the world, sexual politics - i.e. misogyny - sexism, bigotry, extreme movements like the Baader Meinhof gang, that sort of thing. We started of chatting in the courtyard, playing table-football about 3 or 4. When it got dark she suggested that we go up to her friends room, that overlooks the courtyard, and we did. We were very mildly flirting but that end of the conversation never really took off. At some point, probably about 1-2 am i remember perching on the edge of Tina’s friend’s bed, as I was the worse for wear for drink, and dozed off. I awoke just as it was getting light. I was alone in the room, laying as I had when I dozed off. The light was off as was the tv. I got up and went through the door to the dormitory and crawled into bed. My biggest memory of that walk was that although I hadnt got off with the girl, the other males in the party would think otherwise, and that I would keep that bit of mystery to myself for a little while. As it turned out the next night we were all in the kitchen until 1 or 2 am, and although Tina averted my gaze, she was only a little stand-offish, not a lot.

An interesting fact had come out in my conversation with Tina, though. She said that she had recently split up with her boyfriend and that he lived there, but was away for that period. It did make me think that 6 months later, she may have had to explain her time with me to him, since another in the house may have got the impression that she had slept with me, and told him so.
That is the best explanation I can come up with to answer this allegation, since I know that she must have had a reason to say these things, however untrue they are. Who knows?



So my statement is a set of points:

1)I never raped or was aggressive or was sexual in any way to the girl Tina
2)I have had to face a lot of aggression and humiliation as a result of this accusation.
3)I tried to arrange for me to be tried by the people of Steffi – they refused me!
4)I went to Karlsruhe with the express purpose of defending my right to meet my accusers. To do so would have meant losing my teeth :- they threatened to bash me up.
5)I have always been ready to face this accusation, but no-one gives a fuck, cause it makes good gossip, and someone to throw rocks at, when people feel like it. None of the people from Steffi want to talk about it because (a) they cant remember anything from our visit (b) they were only partially convinced about it at the time, and so their conviction has waned over the years in the face of some degree of rebuttal (c) they werent convinced about it at the time, but didn’t want to make too many waves (d) they were convinced about it at the time, and are convinced that the burden of proof lies with me, rather than through any kind of civilised process (whereby the accused gets some rights as opposed to none), since the crime is rape, and since in cases of rape, just the memory of it can be harmful. Indeed I know that the memory of rape can be harmful, and this is a reasonable justification for that stance. But in the face of constant rebuttal, with the support of many associates, including two of the mothers of the accused’s children and his own mother, with the willingness of the accused to actually be tried by the people of Steffi, surely then there must be some suspicion that this rape accusation is in some way questionable?

wahrscheinlich lohnt es sich nicht, das zu übersetzen; es wird wohl von einen sowieso nicht beachtet werden, weil es nicht in ihr weltbild passt.

"von einigen", nicht "von einen"

an juzi: dann veröffentliche doch mal "die eindeutige erklärung der ehemaligen bewohnerInnen" der steffi.

Habt ihr begriffen,was das heißt ?Es heißt :Sex nur noch mit
Z/zeugen !Oder habt ihr schonmaleinen gesehen,der mit aufs Revier kommt,während er noch..du müßtest ihn tragen.Es ist widerlich.....

hallo
es wäre wirklich interesant wie die diskussion bei euch weitergeführt wurde/wird. wird da nochmal was veröffentlicht? und wie sieht die erklärung von damals aus auf die ihr euch beruft?

Ein Statement vom Conflict Sänger, gesendet am 14. Mai 2003:



FINAL STATEMENT FROM COLIN JERWOOD FROM CONFLICT.LONDON MAY 2003.

REGARDING THE ACCUSATION AGAINST A GROUP MEMBER.

I WAS NOT THERE AT THE TIME OF THE INCIDENT WAS TO HAVE TAKEN PLACE SO I CAN ONLY SPEAK FROM WHAT I KNOW OF TO DATE.

SINCE THIS ISSUE WAS RAISED MANY YEARS AGO I HAVE WORKED HARD TO FIND THE TRUTH,I HAVE TREID ON MANY OCASIONS TO COME TO GERMANY IN PERSON ALONE.TO MEET PEOPLE.

I HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF TRYING TO KEEP THINGS QUEIT REGARDING THE ALIGATIONS,THIS IS NOT TRUE,I WAS ACTULLY ASKED BY PEOPLE IN GERMANY NOT TO MAKE A FUSS IN ORDER NOT TO CAUSE PEOPLE IN GERMANY MORE UPSET,AND NOT TO CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR THE PEOPLE AT THE SQUAT.

I HAVE BEEN ASKED HOW I CAN LET THE PERSON IN QUESTION REMAIN IN A GROUP WITH THE MORALS THAT I HOLD,BUT I HAVE ASKED FOR TEN YEARS FOR SOMEONE,ANYONE TO MEET AND SPEAK TO ME,I NEED TO LOOK THESE PERSON,OR PEOPLE IN THE EYE TO TRY AND FEEL IF THEY ARE GENUINE PEOPLE.

NO ONE,NOT ONE PERSON WILL MEET ME,NO ONE AGAIN WILL TELEPHONE ME OR EMAIL ME AND TELL ME EXACTLY WHAT IS MENT TO HAVE HAPPEND.

IF I BELEIVED THIS TO BE TRUE,OF COURSE I WOULD NOT HAVE THE PERSON IN THE GROUP,I BELEIVE THAT RAPE IS VILE AND DIGUSTS ME,I BELEIVE THERE IS A HUGE DIFERENCE BETWEEN SHARING A SEXUL EXPERIANCE WITH SOMEONE AND VIOLENCE...THAT IS WHAT I SEE RAPE AS PURE EVIL VIOLENCE.

MY ATTITUDE TOWARDS WOMEN DIFFERS ON THE PERSON JUST THE SAME AS IT DOES FOR ME,I AM NOT SEXIST BUT TREAT PEOPLE AS I AM TREATED,IF PEOPLE PLEASE LOOK AT THE GOOD I HAVE DONE OVER THE YEARS ON MANY CAUSES THEY MUST KNOW WHAT IM LIKE.I HAVE RAISED THOUSENDS OF POUNDS IN BENEFITS FOR RAPE CRISSIOS CENTRES AND WOMEN SAFE HOUSES..WHERE WOMEN GO IF THEY ARE BEING BEATEN UP BY THERE PASRTNERS ECT..AND YOU ONLY HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CONTENT OF LYRICS THE GIRLS SING IN OUR GROUP SINCE 1979 TO KNOW WHERE WE STAND ON EQULITY FOR WOMEN.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS I ASK YOU TO UNDERSTAND,THAT MYSELF AND MY GROUP ARE GETTING PUNISHED FOR SOMETHING THAT NO ONE WILL CONFIRM,OR SPEAK TO ME ABOUT,THIS I BELEIVE IS WRONG....

I HAVE KNOWN THE PERSON ACCUSED ONLY AFTER THE INCIDENT,BUT IN THE TIME I HAVE KNOWN HIM I HAVE NEVER SEEN OR HEARD HIM BE BAD TO A WOMAN,OR TO ANYONE IN FACT,HE IS ONE OF THE MOST POLITICAL MINDED PEOPLE I KNOW,,,I HAVE KNOWN PERONALY HIS GIRLFREINDS ONER THE YEARS AND HIS 16 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER,NEVER ONCE HAVE I HEARD ANYTHING BAD AT ALL...AND BELIEIVE ME THESE PEOPLE WOULD COME TO ME IF THEY NEEDED HELP,AS THEY KNOW I COULD DEAL WITH IT.BUT NEVER HAVE I KNOWN ANYTHING.

FINALLY I ASK YOU TO ASKYOUSELF THIS QUESTION,,WHY WOULD I KEEP THIS PERON IN MY GROUP,I COULD EASILY KICK HIM OUT AND GET ANOUTHER GUITARST..THERES TONS HERE WHO WOULD WANT TO JOIN CONFLICT...WHY WOULD I CARRY ON AND KEEP GETTING GREIF,CANCELD APPEARENCES IN GERMANY,ECT ECT.

THE REASON IS I BELEIVE THIS PERSON IS TELLING ME THE TRUTH,I HAVE SPOKEN TO HIM MANY TIMES ONE TO ONE,AND NO ONE ELSE HAS EVER DONE THIS...PLEASE ASK YOURSELF,WHAT WOULD YOU BELEIVE...

I BELEIVE THE MATTER CAN ONLY BE RESOLVED THROUGH SPEAKING,I DONT WANT CONFLICT TO NEVER BE ABLE TO APPEAR IN GERMANY AGAIN,THIS IS WRONG,WE NEED TO LOOK AT A WAY TO RESOLVE THIS,AND IF POSSIBLE MAKE SOME GOOD OUT OF IT..I DONT KNOW WHAT PERHAPS RAISE MONEY FROM APPEARENCES TO PROTECT WOMEN FROM WHAT IS ALLEGED TO HAVE HAPPEND..

WE MUST SORT THE MATTER OUT,I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND IF YOU CHOSE TO IGNORE WHAT IM SAYING I HOLD YOU NO BAD FEELINGS AND WISH YOU ALL THE BEST IN EVERYTHING YOU ARE WORKING AND FIGHTING FOR.

ALKL THE BEST.COLIN JERWOOD.CONFLICT.

so sehr ich auch nachforsche, ich lese immer wieder nur stellungsnahmen von conflict, der veranstalterInnen, dem booker und sogar marshall aber noch nie hab ich eine stellungsnahme der steffi oder gar der betroffenen frau gesehen! es stimmt einfach nicht, dass conflict nicht auf diese vorwürfe reagiert hat! ich hab zig emails bekommen, zig stellungsnahmen gelesen aber noch nie hab ich irgendwas von leuten gesehen die damals dabei waren! hey leute sowas ist unseriös! hier werden leute zerissen aufgrund wilder vermutungen. ich bin echt die letzte die sowas einfach abtut aber wenn ich nichtmal einen winzigen beweis der richtigkeit dieser vorwürfe bekomme, sorry aber dann kann ich das nicht ernst nehmen. vergewaltigung ist für mich das allerletzte und gehört mit aller konsequenz geahndet aber dazu brauchts dann doch beweise. sollte ich ein einziges mal von einer person die damals dabei war hören, dass da etwas dran ist würd ich es sofort glauben aber die ganze geschichte hier ist ziemlich dünn und es wird nur wild spekuliert. nicht verifizierte anschuldigungen zu verbreiten finde ich nicht in ordnung egal ob es sich um einen vergewaltigungsvorwurf oder sonst einen vorwurf handelt. ich reagiere beim thema vergewaltigung selber immer äusserst emotional aber solange ich nicht den klitzekleinsten beweis der richtigkeit habe werde ich niemanden verurteilen. ausserdem weiss ich selber ganz gut wie schnell sich irgendwelche gerüchte verbreiten und selbst nach vielen jahren halten diese sich hartnäckig und werden wild ausgeschmückt. ich sehs schon kommen, dass veranstalterInnen, bookerInnen und bands sich über jahre mit vorwürfen und denunziationen herumzuschlagen haben. solange ich keinen halbwegs glaubhaften beweis habe werde ich weiterhin conflict hören und deren konzerte besuchen und mir deren platten kaufen.
wenn ich aber wie in einem artikel oben lese, dass die ganze sache nun schon über 10 jahre her ist und man verzeihen lernen muss, krieg ich allerdings auch das kotzen! vergewaltigung verjährt nicht!