answers concerning gender issues from europe
These are answers to a questionaire that was send out to the mailinglists of around 60 IMC´s
Eine erste Auswertung der Antworten findet ihr hier.
Eine erste Auswertung der Antworten findet ihr hier.
IMC Norway
Male individual
You should bear in mind that IMC-Norway is still in its infancy - the first thing we did was to cover the Globalization Conference three weeks ago - so there are many things which are still unclear. We have not yet developed a real culture of organization and have not had the opportunity yet to identity the group dymanics at work in our network.
What is the male/female ratio in your activ IMC group?
Difficult to say really, since we have just started and are very loosely organised, but if I were to make a wild guess I would say around 3/2.
If there are few women in your group, did you ever think about the reasons and how to change the ratio?
I hope this will be discussed. Like I said, however, we have just started IMC-Norway and have hardly had the time to discuss anything at all. There are a number of issues yearning for more discussion. The gender issue has not been mentioned yet.
Do you notice any gender specific work organization?
I am myself a writer, and i think we have a number of able writers of both sexes. There are perhaps a slight overweight of men. The coordinator/'leader' of the team at the Globalization Conference was a woman. Both sexes are fairly equally represented video group, I think.The tech/programming group is the one most obviously dominated by men. Very few, if any, women are involved in this work.
If there is gender specific work organization, what do you think are the reasons?
I think men are generally more likely to enjoy involving themselves in tech maintenance and programming. Judging from my personal experience, men tend to be more likely to be interested in How Things Work as opposed to what use you can make of it (or, if you wish, to regard technology as toys rather than tools). This has to do with gender roles and culture; it is beyond me to point at one single cause here.(It is also a generalization, of course - I am myself a good example of a man with no technical aptitude whatsoever.)
It might also be more difficult for women to involve themselves in such things even if they are interested, since they would then have to enter a heavily male-dominated field. I don't think this is a problem specific to the IMC, however.
What is the societal background? How is the participation of women in new technologies in your country in general?
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I think it is fairly good. It used not to be - the Internet was very male-dominated at first, but it is my feeling that it changed somewhat when the net became more accessible to other people than computer geeks - that is, when it started entering schools, workplaces and so on. I think, however, men still are more present than women.
How is the situation in other leftist groups in your country/ city that don't use computer technology? Do you see a difference to your group?
All leftist groups use computer technology, even though IMC use it more than others. In general, slightly more women than men participate in volunteer work, NGOs and so on, but I don't know if this also applies to left-wing groups. I have not noticed any difference between the IMC and other groups on this issue.
Besides gender specific work organization are there other forms of sexist discrimination?
Not that I know of. Although the mailing lists are dominated by males, the women that do participate are listened to as much as the men. When it comes to meetings and practical organizing of work, women often play leading roles as coordinators and so forth.We have not had any complaints of discrimination, sexual harassment and the like, but that does not mean it does not happen. I have not seen any of it, though.
Does this differ from groups that don't work with computer technologies? If you see a difference, what could be the reasons for it?
As I said, all organizations use computer technology to some degree or another. Most have e-mail lists for discussion and information, many use the net to distribute posters and flyers and so on.
Besides IMC, I am also a member of the RV (Red Electorial Alliance) party. While there is a fairly equal number of men and women in the party, the mailing lists are heavily dominated by men. Interestingly enough, the men recognize this problem as much as the women do, but have not found any effective means to increase the participation of women on the e-mail fora.
Are there people taking action, if gender discrimination occures?
It has not been discussed yet.
If there is no relevant gender discrimination: How did you manage that?
There is no discrimination as such, but men are more present and thus more visible on some fields. I don't think equal participation should be a goal in itself, but equal treatment regardless of gender certainly should. There are many discussions we have not had yet, so I will not rule out the possibility that there are problems we need to address.
IMC UK
Female individual
What is the male/female ratio in your activ IMC group?
Difficult to say. When the group got together as a media group after J18, we were about 16 people, including 3 women. The active, regularly meeting admin collective is now more fluid, some have left and others have joined or pop in from time to time. I'd say there are about 30 people, one third women.
If there are few women in your group, did you ever think about the reasons and how to change the ratio?
In the very start, us 3 women where actually surprised at how much we liked working with that predominantly male collective. We characterised them as "un-lagery men". For months, we were mainly discussing what we were going to do, in a rather quiet and relaxed tone. Not much polarising, shouting others down, interrupting and all that typically male stuff (not that women can't do that, but u know what I mean). Our priority was to get a media collective to work. For myself I can say that I am sick and tired of having to explain gender issues to men and increasingly women. I've done it 100s of times over the years. I am trying hard to take a position where I ASSUME that myself and other women are to be treated with the same respect as men.
As time went by, more women joined and stayed. There was a time when I got really pissed off, when I had a feeling that the usual silencing of women started to happen. Then I interpreted a very harsh criticism against myself within the framework of gender relations. So I started shouting a bit. And we went out for a drink just the women, and decided to strengthen each other's backs, as men usually do routinely. Simple stuff, taking each other seriously, hyping each other's ideas, referring to each other in discussions, supporting each other's projects. We didn't put a "gender discussion" on the agenda, but relied on a more practical way. I don't like the german style prescribed gender discussions, which often start with a sexist incident, continue with the exclusion of the culprit and all too often end with men talking about women (instead of talking about themselves) and the victim being silenced. On the other hand, sometimes I find it necessary to remind ourselves of the good old feminist rules which should bloody well be part of any activsts ethics. We didn't walk out, because we enjoy working with the boys. Many of them have some sense of feminism, some are our partners and get their education for free. They listen. Many in the collective have little idea about IT when they join, but there is a lot of support, and training, from the men who do. They don't like being in charge of all the boring administrative stuff either, so they are always ready to pass on knowledge. So - no, we don't have a special “more women" policy, but we try to make new people comfortable in the way they need it. And I know from some of the "indysisters" that they make a point of engaging with new women. Some newcomers, especially some men, don't feel as welcome as they would like. Don't know why.
Do you notice any gender specific work organization?
Basically, we only have one person who really works on programming. He sometimes finds himself allies, male or female. The awakening tecc list looks pretty male at the moment. The women are writing, updating the page and the calendar, make videos, take pictures, go to actions, do outreach and fundraising, work on a radio project. Not as a fixed group, but as members of the collective. Professionally, more men wage labour in the IT field as web designers, graphic designers, network administrator, IT trainers.
Actually, in the very beginning, there was a dynamics where tecc knowledge and masculinity cross-fertilised. We had a very elaborate and enthusiastic male teccie, and another very elaborate and dedicated male media addict. Needless to say that they were both charming, but they really pushed tecc stuff on the agenda, assuming that this is the most important thing and walking all over the group. We spent many meetings just listening to tecc specific stuff which few understood. They kept raising all these tecc promises - once we have the webpage ready, it will run itself and we can go and do all the other exciting things - complete rubbish if you ask me. I wanted them to go away, discuss it for themselves and come up with a ready-made webpage, fullstop. But now I realise that some tecc knowledge filtered through to me in these months, the patience was worth it. I also realise that it's not fair to leave all the tecc shit to the tecc experts - not very DIY, is it. Its as if I would be forced to do all the typing because I type fast - no thanks.
If there is gender specific work organization, what do you think are the reasons?
I think when we started, more men had access to proper computers (see above, wage labour in IT). But I think this has changed, there was a lot of support to get everybody online, fixing computers, sharing software etc. In terms of programming I can only speak for myself. I can't be bothered to really invest in it. There's more than enough stuff I'm good at. Metaphorically speaking, it's enough to have a driving licence to drive a car. I don't need to be a car mechanic if my mates are. But I guess that my programming mates would be rather pissed off about that, because they want to do the conceptual stuff too, they want to be out in the streets rather than being at home updating the fucking page.
And, yes, I think I got my IT driving licence through imc. Basic stuff. Working with email lists, setting them up, basic understanding of webpages and databases and servers. That was one of the main things which came up again and again in the beginning: That we all wanted to learn something. It's the idea to make IT available for social movements, to empower ourselves in the network society.
What is the societal background? How is the participation of women in new technologies in your country in general?
Social background? You mean where we come from in terms of class and ethnicity? Well, most but not all of us are white, many have some university education (BAs or MaS), some professional training. We come from several EU countries, in that sense it's a very London collective. We have a councellor, a call center worker, graphic designes, web designers, computer administrators, video makers, students, an office administrator, journalists, some artists/activists, some are on the dole, some are several of these things. Women in It in the UK is I guess not better than anywhere else.
How is the situation in other leftist groups in your country/ city that don't use computer technology? Do you see a difference to your group?
Most groups I know use IT in one way or another. They have a webpage or participate in email lists. In general, the gender situation is as anywhere - less women than men, but those who stick to it are usually quite strong. There are moments of frustration, when some women are so fed up that they decide to start their own projects, pissed off with the usual male power games. There are some fluid groups where women set the tone. But this is not a static situation.
Funny enough, from my perspective, the imcuk collective with it's focus on IT is one of the groups where I feel least silenced as a woman.
Besides gender specific work organization are there other forms of sexist discrimination?
I think yes, we always have to struggle a bit more. The codes for representing yourself as authority, someone who knows what she is doing, are still male.. On the other hand, we have a few very silent men in the group. I don't know if that's chosen silence. And there is a nice culture of referring to each other. Even the men refer to what a woman has said, wow! Sad that this needs explicit mentioning.
I think that most political groups still function to a male set template, which makes it harder for women to raise their voices. Changing this template takes a lot of time goodwill and patience. How do you present and network a project? Many men know very well how to do that, talking to individuals first, going ahead without waiting for consensus of the group. So when the project is „officially presented", it has already been approved by some in the group. I'm not sure if that's gender specific. Maybe men are more used in presenting themselves as experts, whereas women tend to say things like I don't really know, but. Or I have a stupid question. That's how we have learned to get attention - asking for help. But actually, I am not so sure that this rethoric is very efficient or adds to the feel-good factor. Humbleness yes, but not submissiveness. But you know all that. Some women are just too bored with educating men - they shut up in the meetings and go ahead with their projects within the imc framework.
Does this differ from groups that don't work with computer technologies? If you see a difference, what could be the reasons for it?
No, I don't see more sexist behaviour in the imc uk collective than in other groups. To the contrary. More abstractly speaking: I think that sexism, although it is clearly a power relation, goes both ways. Men stick to their expert roles and boys networks because it is good for them, women stick to their roles as well - partly because it seems easier, partly because we like being women and sticking to our forms of communication. Sometimes we make it easy for men to stay in power. It's very hard to change the codes in a group which is after all situated in a sexist society. And it really makes me angry that there are few models for women. Either we are silent girls who do the support work. If we get angry about issues of sexism, we become „the nagging female" who always complains. We are the ones who have to raise the issue from time to time, complaining, accusing. I can't tell you how tired I am of that. I like the constructive female conspiracies, a "take it or leave it" approach to those men who can't bear women in power. I am trying to assume that we are as important and qualified as the men and behave accordingly, even I find it - being socially very typically female - difficult at times.
Has gender discrimination ever been a topic on your IMC meetings/ mailing lists?
Yes, I think the incidents that made me really angry were discussed on the list (at the very beginning of the imcuk process), and I did mention the gender issue and had some positive replies to it. But no, we didn't have a "gender discussion", you know that tribunal like thing that leaves everybody feeling bad. Although I think that it is necessary to really educate especially the younger generation of activists both male and female. At some point in my political socialisation in the early nineties in germany, there was at least a broader knowledge about the gender discussions, and in many groups you could assume that men don't want to be sexist and that they have some idea how they can behave sexist even if they are nice. So as a woman, you could just raise your voice and remind them, and often they would shut up. I think we are loosing that consensus with a younger generation of activists. Some men don't even know the basics of gender power relations through forms of speech and communication, some women take for granted what an older generation has struggled for - which is good in a way, but in my view not if it transforms in a kind of post feminist attitude.
How do males (or females) react when gender discrimination is brought up as a topic?
Well, again - in my experience, there were male allies. In general, we discuss issues in a rather practical way. We are not good at political statements and declarations, our politics become most visible by the things we do. So when I as a woman show an interest in redesigning the webpage, without any knowledge of programming but some ideas what I hate about the present state of the page, of course I hear about the informal brainstroming meeting. When I shouted at my group for gender reasons, it was picked up by some men.
In another group, however, not that much into IT, it was different. It was a large, open group with lots of your normal lefty men. They talked about getting out of the activist ghetto, and their whole behaviour was completely counterproductive to that. Gender was raised as a topic, and they plainly didn't understand and came up with the old 80s stuff - basically men discussing why females don't come and postponing the issue from the agenda because we have to plan the next action. As a result, the women started their own subsection which went on for a while and quite successfully. Then the men were wondering where all the women had gone, didn't even realise all the work the women had done. It's the same old story, comes up again and again.
Are there people taking action, if gender discrimination occures?
Well some have gender discriminated but didn't see it as such. I think I have discriminated against women as well - and against the quiter men. It happens so easily - there are all these men going on about exciting things, and you get trapped in the power game, become complicit. Taking action - well, on a day to day basis, yes. That means, we welcome each others skills and make use of them. Working collaboratively is another word. And sometimes, we have these chats amongst women, mostly one-to-one, where we confirm support. This shows in the meetings, I think. Don't know if the particularly supportive men are aware of "taking action against gender discrimination", sometimes yes, sometimes it's just decency and being effective.
Do you have any "tools" that minimize discrimination?
As I said - mutual support amongst the women, sometimes, if it makes sense, a chat with the more open men, and rarely shouting. It is still up to the women to initiate such things.
What do you think could be done to minimize gender discrimination?
Brain washing. Revolution.
If there is no relevant gender discrimination: How did you manage that?
Well, as I said - there is and there isn't. imc uk is part of a gendered society where men are usually educated to dominate. This shows. But having said that, I think we manage quite well through bits of female bonding, sometimes women take the lead for important projects and are taken seriously in that, and through an effective approach - an awareness that us women are just as crucial to the group as the men. By bridging the knowledge gap through trainings. By pestering both men and women to learn what they need. By demanding recognition as a right. And because men and women work on the admin stuff. For expl, a traditional female thing in political groups is writing the minutes. In imcuk, this task is done by men and women. And finally, we don't have a space, i.e. we don't have a kettle, so we don't need to discuss who makes the tea.
IMC Barcelona
Female individual
What is the male/female ratio in your activ IMC group?
More or less, half women, half men.
Do you notice any gender specific work organization?
Most of the women are part of the editorial team; only one of them is in the tech team.
If there is gender specific work organization, what do you think are the reasons?
I don't know why women don't seem to be involved with computers; it is not an issue of not encouraging women, they just don't like it that much. I myself would like to learn some programming but I don`t find the time to do it. The tech team is teaching all in the editorial team the basics of computer programming so that we can do our work better.
What is the societal background? How is the participation of women in new technologies in your country in general?
I have friends both men and women involved in new technologies.
How is the situation in other leftist groups in your country/ city that don’t use computer technology? Do you see a difference to your group?
Don't know.
Besides gender specific work organization are there other forms of sexist discrimination?
I don't see any discrimination; we try to be careful in the language we use not to discrimante any genre, and both men and women have the same protagonism.
Has gender discrimination ever been a topic on your IMC meetings/ mailing lists?
No, we just discussed it to decide how we would include female and male in the same written form. In Spanish, nouns and adjectives have two forms, depending on the genre. In order not to discriminate, you can write: voluntarios/as, voluntari@s,voluntari*s. We have agreed to use the last form.
IMC Switzerland
Female individual (job in IT)
What is the male/female ratio in your activ IMC group?
we are 4 men and 4 woman actually
If there are few women in your group, did you ever think about the reasons and how to change the ratio? Do you notice any gender specific work organization
there is a slight tendency that men are more occupied with technical things, but this has to do with the fact, that in our group only 3 persons are able to deal with the technical aspects and 2 of them are men. i'm quite sure, or better i know, that i'm generally an exception because women are a very rare species in the computerbusiness. this fact is reflecting as well in our structures.
If there is gender specific work organization, what doyou think are the reasons?
there is a tendency that woman say, o god this is so complicated, i will never understand it. and a tendency that men try to complicate the facts, like expressing things in a way that only "experts" understand it. there is a certain lazyness notable concerning the necessity to explain things, as well technical stuff, in a way that even some "nonexperts" can figure out something. but as well i have to say, that woman are lazy because they don't ask, they don't insist.
What is the societal background? How is the participation of women in new technologies in yourcountry in general?
same as yours i think -->switzerland
How is the situation in other leftist groups in your country/ city that don’t use computer technology? Do you see a difference to your group?
meanwhile a lot of them are involved in one kind or the other with the internet. mostly men.
Besides gender specific work organization are there other forms of sexist discrimination
no, i wouldn't say that in our group. but perhaps i'm not the person to ask this. generally i notice that women in smaller groups, that often meet and develop a certain constancy, dare much more to open their mouth than in bigger meetings where generally men are the ones that always talk. but i notice as well sometimes a discrimination of younger, unexperienced people in the way that their issues are ignored more easily than the ones from a an older person.
Does this differ from groups that don’t work with computer technologies? If you see a difference, what could be the reasons for it?
no, it's the same for me.
Has gender discrimination ever been a topic on your IMC meetings/ mailing lists?
not in a "personal" manner. it has been a topic related to postings on our site.
How do males (or females) react when genderdiscrimination is brought up as a topic?
as we never had a personal discussion in meanings of a direct critique to any male of our group, we have our general standarts, that we don't want any sexist, racist or fascist postings on indymedia, but at the same time we are strongly against censorship. in the end this means that we tolerate as well these kind of statemants if they don't remain undiscussed. the decision to censor a posting is taken only if the posting lacks of any base to discuss it. sexism as a topic on the indymedia site is always bringing up a lot of trouble, and many postings you would prefer not to have read. if you want an example go to read: www.savanne.ch. we have "preserved" there a discussion from indymedia about homosexuality and sexism. (it's in german)
Are there people taking action, if gender discrimination occures? in what sense? in our group? or in general? Do you have any “tools” that minimize discrimination? no. i don't know exactly what you mean
What do you think could be done to minimize gender discrimination?
women have to fight, women have to claim their rights and insist. women have to make themselves independent from what men may think about them. this does not mean, that they should only treat with women, but generally women are very afraid of what male persons may think about them. but this is a longer discussion...
If there is no relevant gender discrimination: How did you manage that?
don't take men to serious....no, i mean i know that i'm in a very good position, not to confront with the billions of women in the world, that have no access to knowledge and no possibility to live independently of men.
IMC Germany
Male, white indiviual
If there are few women in your group, did you ever think about the reasons and how to change the ratio?
Nein (no)
Do you notice any gender specific work organization? (e.g. women write articles, men do the programming?)
ich glaube ja (I think so)
If there is gender specific work organization, what do you think are the reasons? (e.g. women don’t know, how to do programming, women don’t own computers, women don’t like computers, men are not creative, but more rational, men don’t let women do computer stuff)
keine Ahnung (no clue)
Besides gender specific work organization are there other forms of sexist discrimination? (e.g. no one listens to what women have to say...)
Also hier moechte ich mal einhaken: Ich weiss ja nicht, auf welche Erfahrungen Du Dich beziehst, aber ich erlebe indy.germany als ziemlich konspirative Vereinigung, ich erlebe das nicht als sexistische, sondern als Diskriminierung von Neulingen und Nichtberlinern. IMC Wendland scheint hoechst konspirativ organisiert zu werden und das Printprojekt ist ueber Lippenbekenntnisse nicht hinausgekommen. Wirklich stoeren tut mich das noch nicht. Schade finde ich, dass ich nicht auf die Redliste komme. Ich habe meine Freiraeume, die ich alleine und stressfrei bearbeiten kann.
(I want to intervene here. I don’t know which experiences you are talking about, but I experience indymedia as a pretty conspirative group, I don’t experience that as sexist, but as discrimination against Newcomers and Non-Berliners. IMC Wendland seems to be highly conspirative organised and the Printproject doesn’t seem to be more than a lip-service. So far it doesn’t really bother me. It’s sad that I don’t get access to the editing-list. I have my free spaces, that I can work in without stress.)
IMC Switzerland
(regional group Zurich)
(only roughly translated into english - whole translation follows)
1) What is the male/female ratio in your activ IMC group?
in der schweiz wurde indymedia von 3 männern gegründet, wovon jetzt noch 2 aktiv an indymedia beteiligt sind. diese haben nie darüber nachgedacht, wie sie das ändern könnten und befanden sich in einer allgemein eher als "hoffnugslos" bezeichneten lage, was die aktive beteiligung von anderen/mehr leuten an indymedia betrifft. genua (diesen sommer) hat einen umschwung bedeutet: die 2 damaligen indymedia-macher sind nach genua "verschwunden", was dazu geführt hat, dass sich hier frauen "gewagt" haben, die arbeit zu übernehmen. genua hat aber auch allgemein einen umschwung für indymedia bedeutet: seit da ist das interesse an indy allgemein gestiegen.
(In Switzerland indymedia was founded by three men, from which two are still actively involved now. These never thought about, how to change this and they found themselves generally in a rather „hopeless“ situation, concerning the active participation of other people at indymedia. Genua (this summer) meant a change: the two indymedia makers disappeared to Genua, which had the effect, that women dared to take up the work. Genua generally meant a change: Since then the interest in indymedia raised in general.)
3) Do you notice any gender specific work organization?
nein, wir können keine typische geschlechterspezifische arbeitsteilung feststellen. Bei uns ist die arbeit in etwa so aufgeteilt:- schreiben von beiträgen: gleichmässig / gleichwertig- programmieren / technik: 3, davon 1 frau. (in diesem gebiet seit kurzem von frau initierter weiterbildungskurs für alle indymedias, um uns gegenseitig zu helfen/schulen)- e-mails beantworten (administratives im hintergrund, "aufrecht erhaltendes"): gleiche, wie programmiern / technik. dies hängt unserer meinung nach vor allem mit der infrastruktur (computer, zugang zum netz) und sprach(englisch)-kenntnissen zusammen. traditionellerweise arbeiten bis jetzt mehr männer auf dem computer (was z.b. auch zugang während der arbeitszeit bedeutet).
No, we can not see any gender specific work organistion. (whole translation follows)
4) If there is gender specific work organization, what do you think are the reasons?
wir stellen eher altersbedingte (auch im zusammenhang mit geschlecht) unterschiede statt. dies scheint in deinen fragen aber zu fehlen. während der diskussion gefallenes statement (von einer frau): "wir haben in der schule noch auf schifertafeln geschrieben...".
(We see more difference in connection with age (also connected with gender). This semms to be missing in your questions. During the discussion a women said: „We learned to write in school on slates.“)
5) What is the societal background? How is the participation of women in new technologies in your country in general?
informatik oder computer-arbeit ist bei uns (in der schweiz) klar ein männerjob! die frauenbeteiligung liegt etwa bei 10 - 20%. wir bezeichnen unsere indymedia gruppe als sehr heterogen (alter, job, ...):- 3 befinden sich in ausbildung (2 männer, 1 frau)- 2 arbeiten im sozialbereich (2 frauen)- 5 haben einen computer-job (2 frauen, 3 männer), 2 davon in ausbildung (1 frau, 1 mann))- alter liegt zwischen 18 und 56 jahren
6) How is the situation in other leftist groups in your country/ city that don’t use computer technology? Do you see a difference to your group?
wir sehen keine grossen unterschiede. wir schätzen diese situation in zürich / der schweiz etwa so ein: innerhalb der gruppen ist das (zahlenmässige) verhältnis oft ausgeglichen oder es hat mehr frauen. wenn es um gruppenübergreifendes geht (sitzungen, nach aussen, ...) sind die männer oft mehr vertreten bzw. reissen die klappe weiter auf. wir haben uns bei dieser frage noch überlegt, weshalb indymedia bis jetzt nicht mit ausländischen menschen (migrantInnen) zusammenarbeitet. vielleicht liegt das an- der sprache?- technik? - der offenheit von indymedia? (mehr repression in herkunftsland?)- generell fehlender kontakt?7)nein. was dabei vielleicht zu bemerken ist, ist dass leute, die sonst in der linken "szene" sind und sich auch sonst sehen und kennen, oft über "anderes" (nicht indy spezifisches)diskutieren, was andere ausschliesst.
8) Besides gender specific work organization are there other forms of sexist discrimination?
nein.
9) Does this differ from groups that don’t work with computer technologies?
nein.
10) Are there people taking action, if gender discrimination occures?
erfahrung innerhalb der gruppe nicht gemacht. (höchstens bei kommentaren auf indymedia).
11) How do males (or females) react when gender discrimination is brought up as a topic?
wir würden reagieren oder sagen das jetzt.
12) Do you have any “tools” that minimise discrimination?
gegenseitige schulung, um geschlechterspezifische arbeitsteilung zu vermeiden (wurde bei uns, aber eigentlich nicht aus diesem grund gemacht)- schauen, dass es (gleich viele) frauen in der gruppe hat (ist bei uns nicht aus diesem grund geschehen)
13) What do you think could be done to minimise gender discrimination?
mehr zur diskussion / zum thema machen (auch auf indymedia)
14) If there is no relevant gender discrimination: How did you manage that?
keine ahnung was wir als frage noch als interessant empfunden hätte, wäre die frage nach der motivation, an indy teilzunehmen bzw. ob dies geschlechterspezifisch ist. dies konnten wir bei uns jedoch nicht feststellen. nach der diskussion ist uns jetzt aufgefallen, dass sich die frauen mehr als die männer geäussert haben.
IMC Athens
If there are few women in your group, did you ever think about the reasons and how to change the ratio?
There are indeed only a few women participating in imc-athens. At the moment the balance would be one woman to every three men. The limited participation of women was present as a feeling. This questionnaire was a good opportunity to touch on the subject. However, we don’t have any definite proposals on how to get more women involved in the group. There is a need for more people, both men and women, to get involved in the group.
Do you notice any gender specific work organization? (e.g. women write articles, men do the programming?)
The group is quite young; it is only three months old. It could be of some importance that the team that started the project consisted of five men; three women joined closely after. Women involved in Indymedia know of computers, but lack in knowledge of more specific “technical” programs. This is responsible for their participation in things they know better, such as translation work, group discussions and publishing, while they get to know more on technical issues.
If there is gender specific work organization, what do you think are the reasons? (e.g. women don't know how to do programming, women don't own computers, women don't like computers, men are not creative, but more rational, men don't let women do computer stuff) 5. What is the societal background? How is the participation of women in new technologies in your country in general?
Indymedia uses very new technologies and it requires some time to get familiar to using them. It is also important that at a high percentage women’s knowledge of computers is centered on programs of administrative support. Participation of women in new technologies is particularly high in graphic arts and graphics. Moreover, the introduction of technology in public education is very recent, and women, but men as well, who use these technologies are basically self-taught. The above reasons that are listed in question 4 exist to the degree that are related to class inequalities or personal choices.
How is the situation in other leftist groups in your country/ city that don't use computer technology? Do you see a difference to your group?
In most greek leftist political groups there is obvious male dominance. Sexist attitudes are commonplace, most people ignore discussions on sexism; feminism is undervalued and treated negatively by both men and women. There is a lot of confusion regarding feminism and lack of information concerning the variety of feminist theories.
Athens Indymedia is certainly an open group and intentions are good.
Besides gender specific work organization are there other forms of sexist discrimination? (e.g. no one listens to what women have to say...)
No
Does this differ from groups that don't work with computer technologies? If you see a difference, what could be the reasons for it?
It could be possible that the use of technology and the participation of women would open up a group that uses technology more than a group that does not.
Has gender discrimination ever been a topic on your IMC meetings/ mailing lists?
This is the first time that gender participation in the group is discussed. We have however discussed the writing down of both grammatical types for male and female in texts coming from the editorial and translators’ groups of athens Indymedia.
How do males (or females) react when gender discrimination is brought up as a topic?
Concerning the questionnaire, we had different responses:
- Some women did not participate in the discussion
- Some men felt embarrassed discussing the topic
- Some women and some men found the questionnaire provocative and aggressive
- Some men suggested the questionnaire should be answered by women only
Finally, it was decided to form a group of people interested in answering the questionnaire and making a first draft. This draft would be passed on to the mailing lists where it would be further discussed. The group that was formed was mixed.
Are there people taking action, if gender discrimination occures?
In case such a problem occurs, there are people in the group that would take action.
Do you have any "tools" that minimize discrimination?
We do not have any specific tools other than open discussions, the openness of the group and the respect to the individual.
Male individual
You should bear in mind that IMC-Norway is still in its infancy - the first thing we did was to cover the Globalization Conference three weeks ago - so there are many things which are still unclear. We have not yet developed a real culture of organization and have not had the opportunity yet to identity the group dymanics at work in our network.
What is the male/female ratio in your activ IMC group?
Difficult to say really, since we have just started and are very loosely organised, but if I were to make a wild guess I would say around 3/2.
If there are few women in your group, did you ever think about the reasons and how to change the ratio?
I hope this will be discussed. Like I said, however, we have just started IMC-Norway and have hardly had the time to discuss anything at all. There are a number of issues yearning for more discussion. The gender issue has not been mentioned yet.
Do you notice any gender specific work organization?
I am myself a writer, and i think we have a number of able writers of both sexes. There are perhaps a slight overweight of men. The coordinator/'leader' of the team at the Globalization Conference was a woman. Both sexes are fairly equally represented video group, I think.The tech/programming group is the one most obviously dominated by men. Very few, if any, women are involved in this work.
If there is gender specific work organization, what do you think are the reasons?
I think men are generally more likely to enjoy involving themselves in tech maintenance and programming. Judging from my personal experience, men tend to be more likely to be interested in How Things Work as opposed to what use you can make of it (or, if you wish, to regard technology as toys rather than tools). This has to do with gender roles and culture; it is beyond me to point at one single cause here.(It is also a generalization, of course - I am myself a good example of a man with no technical aptitude whatsoever.)
It might also be more difficult for women to involve themselves in such things even if they are interested, since they would then have to enter a heavily male-dominated field. I don't think this is a problem specific to the IMC, however.
What is the societal background? How is the participation of women in new technologies in your country in general?
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I think it is fairly good. It used not to be - the Internet was very male-dominated at first, but it is my feeling that it changed somewhat when the net became more accessible to other people than computer geeks - that is, when it started entering schools, workplaces and so on. I think, however, men still are more present than women.
How is the situation in other leftist groups in your country/ city that don't use computer technology? Do you see a difference to your group?
All leftist groups use computer technology, even though IMC use it more than others. In general, slightly more women than men participate in volunteer work, NGOs and so on, but I don't know if this also applies to left-wing groups. I have not noticed any difference between the IMC and other groups on this issue.
Besides gender specific work organization are there other forms of sexist discrimination?
Not that I know of. Although the mailing lists are dominated by males, the women that do participate are listened to as much as the men. When it comes to meetings and practical organizing of work, women often play leading roles as coordinators and so forth.We have not had any complaints of discrimination, sexual harassment and the like, but that does not mean it does not happen. I have not seen any of it, though.
Does this differ from groups that don't work with computer technologies? If you see a difference, what could be the reasons for it?
As I said, all organizations use computer technology to some degree or another. Most have e-mail lists for discussion and information, many use the net to distribute posters and flyers and so on.
Besides IMC, I am also a member of the RV (Red Electorial Alliance) party. While there is a fairly equal number of men and women in the party, the mailing lists are heavily dominated by men. Interestingly enough, the men recognize this problem as much as the women do, but have not found any effective means to increase the participation of women on the e-mail fora.
Are there people taking action, if gender discrimination occures?
It has not been discussed yet.
If there is no relevant gender discrimination: How did you manage that?
There is no discrimination as such, but men are more present and thus more visible on some fields. I don't think equal participation should be a goal in itself, but equal treatment regardless of gender certainly should. There are many discussions we have not had yet, so I will not rule out the possibility that there are problems we need to address.
IMC UK
Female individual
What is the male/female ratio in your activ IMC group?
Difficult to say. When the group got together as a media group after J18, we were about 16 people, including 3 women. The active, regularly meeting admin collective is now more fluid, some have left and others have joined or pop in from time to time. I'd say there are about 30 people, one third women.
If there are few women in your group, did you ever think about the reasons and how to change the ratio?
In the very start, us 3 women where actually surprised at how much we liked working with that predominantly male collective. We characterised them as "un-lagery men". For months, we were mainly discussing what we were going to do, in a rather quiet and relaxed tone. Not much polarising, shouting others down, interrupting and all that typically male stuff (not that women can't do that, but u know what I mean). Our priority was to get a media collective to work. For myself I can say that I am sick and tired of having to explain gender issues to men and increasingly women. I've done it 100s of times over the years. I am trying hard to take a position where I ASSUME that myself and other women are to be treated with the same respect as men.
As time went by, more women joined and stayed. There was a time when I got really pissed off, when I had a feeling that the usual silencing of women started to happen. Then I interpreted a very harsh criticism against myself within the framework of gender relations. So I started shouting a bit. And we went out for a drink just the women, and decided to strengthen each other's backs, as men usually do routinely. Simple stuff, taking each other seriously, hyping each other's ideas, referring to each other in discussions, supporting each other's projects. We didn't put a "gender discussion" on the agenda, but relied on a more practical way. I don't like the german style prescribed gender discussions, which often start with a sexist incident, continue with the exclusion of the culprit and all too often end with men talking about women (instead of talking about themselves) and the victim being silenced. On the other hand, sometimes I find it necessary to remind ourselves of the good old feminist rules which should bloody well be part of any activsts ethics. We didn't walk out, because we enjoy working with the boys. Many of them have some sense of feminism, some are our partners and get their education for free. They listen. Many in the collective have little idea about IT when they join, but there is a lot of support, and training, from the men who do. They don't like being in charge of all the boring administrative stuff either, so they are always ready to pass on knowledge. So - no, we don't have a special “more women" policy, but we try to make new people comfortable in the way they need it. And I know from some of the "indysisters" that they make a point of engaging with new women. Some newcomers, especially some men, don't feel as welcome as they would like. Don't know why.
Do you notice any gender specific work organization?
Basically, we only have one person who really works on programming. He sometimes finds himself allies, male or female. The awakening tecc list looks pretty male at the moment. The women are writing, updating the page and the calendar, make videos, take pictures, go to actions, do outreach and fundraising, work on a radio project. Not as a fixed group, but as members of the collective. Professionally, more men wage labour in the IT field as web designers, graphic designers, network administrator, IT trainers.
Actually, in the very beginning, there was a dynamics where tecc knowledge and masculinity cross-fertilised. We had a very elaborate and enthusiastic male teccie, and another very elaborate and dedicated male media addict. Needless to say that they were both charming, but they really pushed tecc stuff on the agenda, assuming that this is the most important thing and walking all over the group. We spent many meetings just listening to tecc specific stuff which few understood. They kept raising all these tecc promises - once we have the webpage ready, it will run itself and we can go and do all the other exciting things - complete rubbish if you ask me. I wanted them to go away, discuss it for themselves and come up with a ready-made webpage, fullstop. But now I realise that some tecc knowledge filtered through to me in these months, the patience was worth it. I also realise that it's not fair to leave all the tecc shit to the tecc experts - not very DIY, is it. Its as if I would be forced to do all the typing because I type fast - no thanks.
If there is gender specific work organization, what do you think are the reasons?
I think when we started, more men had access to proper computers (see above, wage labour in IT). But I think this has changed, there was a lot of support to get everybody online, fixing computers, sharing software etc. In terms of programming I can only speak for myself. I can't be bothered to really invest in it. There's more than enough stuff I'm good at. Metaphorically speaking, it's enough to have a driving licence to drive a car. I don't need to be a car mechanic if my mates are. But I guess that my programming mates would be rather pissed off about that, because they want to do the conceptual stuff too, they want to be out in the streets rather than being at home updating the fucking page.
And, yes, I think I got my IT driving licence through imc. Basic stuff. Working with email lists, setting them up, basic understanding of webpages and databases and servers. That was one of the main things which came up again and again in the beginning: That we all wanted to learn something. It's the idea to make IT available for social movements, to empower ourselves in the network society.
What is the societal background? How is the participation of women in new technologies in your country in general?
Social background? You mean where we come from in terms of class and ethnicity? Well, most but not all of us are white, many have some university education (BAs or MaS), some professional training. We come from several EU countries, in that sense it's a very London collective. We have a councellor, a call center worker, graphic designes, web designers, computer administrators, video makers, students, an office administrator, journalists, some artists/activists, some are on the dole, some are several of these things. Women in It in the UK is I guess not better than anywhere else.
How is the situation in other leftist groups in your country/ city that don't use computer technology? Do you see a difference to your group?
Most groups I know use IT in one way or another. They have a webpage or participate in email lists. In general, the gender situation is as anywhere - less women than men, but those who stick to it are usually quite strong. There are moments of frustration, when some women are so fed up that they decide to start their own projects, pissed off with the usual male power games. There are some fluid groups where women set the tone. But this is not a static situation.
Funny enough, from my perspective, the imcuk collective with it's focus on IT is one of the groups where I feel least silenced as a woman.
Besides gender specific work organization are there other forms of sexist discrimination?
I think yes, we always have to struggle a bit more. The codes for representing yourself as authority, someone who knows what she is doing, are still male.. On the other hand, we have a few very silent men in the group. I don't know if that's chosen silence. And there is a nice culture of referring to each other. Even the men refer to what a woman has said, wow! Sad that this needs explicit mentioning.
I think that most political groups still function to a male set template, which makes it harder for women to raise their voices. Changing this template takes a lot of time goodwill and patience. How do you present and network a project? Many men know very well how to do that, talking to individuals first, going ahead without waiting for consensus of the group. So when the project is „officially presented", it has already been approved by some in the group. I'm not sure if that's gender specific. Maybe men are more used in presenting themselves as experts, whereas women tend to say things like I don't really know, but. Or I have a stupid question. That's how we have learned to get attention - asking for help. But actually, I am not so sure that this rethoric is very efficient or adds to the feel-good factor. Humbleness yes, but not submissiveness. But you know all that. Some women are just too bored with educating men - they shut up in the meetings and go ahead with their projects within the imc framework.
Does this differ from groups that don't work with computer technologies? If you see a difference, what could be the reasons for it?
No, I don't see more sexist behaviour in the imc uk collective than in other groups. To the contrary. More abstractly speaking: I think that sexism, although it is clearly a power relation, goes both ways. Men stick to their expert roles and boys networks because it is good for them, women stick to their roles as well - partly because it seems easier, partly because we like being women and sticking to our forms of communication. Sometimes we make it easy for men to stay in power. It's very hard to change the codes in a group which is after all situated in a sexist society. And it really makes me angry that there are few models for women. Either we are silent girls who do the support work. If we get angry about issues of sexism, we become „the nagging female" who always complains. We are the ones who have to raise the issue from time to time, complaining, accusing. I can't tell you how tired I am of that. I like the constructive female conspiracies, a "take it or leave it" approach to those men who can't bear women in power. I am trying to assume that we are as important and qualified as the men and behave accordingly, even I find it - being socially very typically female - difficult at times.
Has gender discrimination ever been a topic on your IMC meetings/ mailing lists?
Yes, I think the incidents that made me really angry were discussed on the list (at the very beginning of the imcuk process), and I did mention the gender issue and had some positive replies to it. But no, we didn't have a "gender discussion", you know that tribunal like thing that leaves everybody feeling bad. Although I think that it is necessary to really educate especially the younger generation of activists both male and female. At some point in my political socialisation in the early nineties in germany, there was at least a broader knowledge about the gender discussions, and in many groups you could assume that men don't want to be sexist and that they have some idea how they can behave sexist even if they are nice. So as a woman, you could just raise your voice and remind them, and often they would shut up. I think we are loosing that consensus with a younger generation of activists. Some men don't even know the basics of gender power relations through forms of speech and communication, some women take for granted what an older generation has struggled for - which is good in a way, but in my view not if it transforms in a kind of post feminist attitude.
How do males (or females) react when gender discrimination is brought up as a topic?
Well, again - in my experience, there were male allies. In general, we discuss issues in a rather practical way. We are not good at political statements and declarations, our politics become most visible by the things we do. So when I as a woman show an interest in redesigning the webpage, without any knowledge of programming but some ideas what I hate about the present state of the page, of course I hear about the informal brainstroming meeting. When I shouted at my group for gender reasons, it was picked up by some men.
In another group, however, not that much into IT, it was different. It was a large, open group with lots of your normal lefty men. They talked about getting out of the activist ghetto, and their whole behaviour was completely counterproductive to that. Gender was raised as a topic, and they plainly didn't understand and came up with the old 80s stuff - basically men discussing why females don't come and postponing the issue from the agenda because we have to plan the next action. As a result, the women started their own subsection which went on for a while and quite successfully. Then the men were wondering where all the women had gone, didn't even realise all the work the women had done. It's the same old story, comes up again and again.
Are there people taking action, if gender discrimination occures?
Well some have gender discriminated but didn't see it as such. I think I have discriminated against women as well - and against the quiter men. It happens so easily - there are all these men going on about exciting things, and you get trapped in the power game, become complicit. Taking action - well, on a day to day basis, yes. That means, we welcome each others skills and make use of them. Working collaboratively is another word. And sometimes, we have these chats amongst women, mostly one-to-one, where we confirm support. This shows in the meetings, I think. Don't know if the particularly supportive men are aware of "taking action against gender discrimination", sometimes yes, sometimes it's just decency and being effective.
Do you have any "tools" that minimize discrimination?
As I said - mutual support amongst the women, sometimes, if it makes sense, a chat with the more open men, and rarely shouting. It is still up to the women to initiate such things.
What do you think could be done to minimize gender discrimination?
Brain washing. Revolution.
If there is no relevant gender discrimination: How did you manage that?
Well, as I said - there is and there isn't. imc uk is part of a gendered society where men are usually educated to dominate. This shows. But having said that, I think we manage quite well through bits of female bonding, sometimes women take the lead for important projects and are taken seriously in that, and through an effective approach - an awareness that us women are just as crucial to the group as the men. By bridging the knowledge gap through trainings. By pestering both men and women to learn what they need. By demanding recognition as a right. And because men and women work on the admin stuff. For expl, a traditional female thing in political groups is writing the minutes. In imcuk, this task is done by men and women. And finally, we don't have a space, i.e. we don't have a kettle, so we don't need to discuss who makes the tea.
IMC Barcelona
Female individual
What is the male/female ratio in your activ IMC group?
More or less, half women, half men.
Do you notice any gender specific work organization?
Most of the women are part of the editorial team; only one of them is in the tech team.
If there is gender specific work organization, what do you think are the reasons?
I don't know why women don't seem to be involved with computers; it is not an issue of not encouraging women, they just don't like it that much. I myself would like to learn some programming but I don`t find the time to do it. The tech team is teaching all in the editorial team the basics of computer programming so that we can do our work better.
What is the societal background? How is the participation of women in new technologies in your country in general?
I have friends both men and women involved in new technologies.
How is the situation in other leftist groups in your country/ city that don’t use computer technology? Do you see a difference to your group?
Don't know.
Besides gender specific work organization are there other forms of sexist discrimination?
I don't see any discrimination; we try to be careful in the language we use not to discrimante any genre, and both men and women have the same protagonism.
Has gender discrimination ever been a topic on your IMC meetings/ mailing lists?
No, we just discussed it to decide how we would include female and male in the same written form. In Spanish, nouns and adjectives have two forms, depending on the genre. In order not to discriminate, you can write: voluntarios/as, voluntari@s,voluntari*s. We have agreed to use the last form.
IMC Switzerland
Female individual (job in IT)
What is the male/female ratio in your activ IMC group?
we are 4 men and 4 woman actually
If there are few women in your group, did you ever think about the reasons and how to change the ratio? Do you notice any gender specific work organization
there is a slight tendency that men are more occupied with technical things, but this has to do with the fact, that in our group only 3 persons are able to deal with the technical aspects and 2 of them are men. i'm quite sure, or better i know, that i'm generally an exception because women are a very rare species in the computerbusiness. this fact is reflecting as well in our structures.
If there is gender specific work organization, what doyou think are the reasons?
there is a tendency that woman say, o god this is so complicated, i will never understand it. and a tendency that men try to complicate the facts, like expressing things in a way that only "experts" understand it. there is a certain lazyness notable concerning the necessity to explain things, as well technical stuff, in a way that even some "nonexperts" can figure out something. but as well i have to say, that woman are lazy because they don't ask, they don't insist.
What is the societal background? How is the participation of women in new technologies in yourcountry in general?
same as yours i think -->switzerland
How is the situation in other leftist groups in your country/ city that don’t use computer technology? Do you see a difference to your group?
meanwhile a lot of them are involved in one kind or the other with the internet. mostly men.
Besides gender specific work organization are there other forms of sexist discrimination
no, i wouldn't say that in our group. but perhaps i'm not the person to ask this. generally i notice that women in smaller groups, that often meet and develop a certain constancy, dare much more to open their mouth than in bigger meetings where generally men are the ones that always talk. but i notice as well sometimes a discrimination of younger, unexperienced people in the way that their issues are ignored more easily than the ones from a an older person.
Does this differ from groups that don’t work with computer technologies? If you see a difference, what could be the reasons for it?
no, it's the same for me.
Has gender discrimination ever been a topic on your IMC meetings/ mailing lists?
not in a "personal" manner. it has been a topic related to postings on our site.
How do males (or females) react when genderdiscrimination is brought up as a topic?
as we never had a personal discussion in meanings of a direct critique to any male of our group, we have our general standarts, that we don't want any sexist, racist or fascist postings on indymedia, but at the same time we are strongly against censorship. in the end this means that we tolerate as well these kind of statemants if they don't remain undiscussed. the decision to censor a posting is taken only if the posting lacks of any base to discuss it. sexism as a topic on the indymedia site is always bringing up a lot of trouble, and many postings you would prefer not to have read. if you want an example go to read: www.savanne.ch. we have "preserved" there a discussion from indymedia about homosexuality and sexism. (it's in german)
Are there people taking action, if gender discrimination occures? in what sense? in our group? or in general? Do you have any “tools” that minimize discrimination? no. i don't know exactly what you mean
What do you think could be done to minimize gender discrimination?
women have to fight, women have to claim their rights and insist. women have to make themselves independent from what men may think about them. this does not mean, that they should only treat with women, but generally women are very afraid of what male persons may think about them. but this is a longer discussion...
If there is no relevant gender discrimination: How did you manage that?
don't take men to serious....no, i mean i know that i'm in a very good position, not to confront with the billions of women in the world, that have no access to knowledge and no possibility to live independently of men.
IMC Germany
Male, white indiviual
If there are few women in your group, did you ever think about the reasons and how to change the ratio?
Nein (no)
Do you notice any gender specific work organization? (e.g. women write articles, men do the programming?)
ich glaube ja (I think so)
If there is gender specific work organization, what do you think are the reasons? (e.g. women don’t know, how to do programming, women don’t own computers, women don’t like computers, men are not creative, but more rational, men don’t let women do computer stuff)
keine Ahnung (no clue)
Besides gender specific work organization are there other forms of sexist discrimination? (e.g. no one listens to what women have to say...)
Also hier moechte ich mal einhaken: Ich weiss ja nicht, auf welche Erfahrungen Du Dich beziehst, aber ich erlebe indy.germany als ziemlich konspirative Vereinigung, ich erlebe das nicht als sexistische, sondern als Diskriminierung von Neulingen und Nichtberlinern. IMC Wendland scheint hoechst konspirativ organisiert zu werden und das Printprojekt ist ueber Lippenbekenntnisse nicht hinausgekommen. Wirklich stoeren tut mich das noch nicht. Schade finde ich, dass ich nicht auf die Redliste komme. Ich habe meine Freiraeume, die ich alleine und stressfrei bearbeiten kann.
(I want to intervene here. I don’t know which experiences you are talking about, but I experience indymedia as a pretty conspirative group, I don’t experience that as sexist, but as discrimination against Newcomers and Non-Berliners. IMC Wendland seems to be highly conspirative organised and the Printproject doesn’t seem to be more than a lip-service. So far it doesn’t really bother me. It’s sad that I don’t get access to the editing-list. I have my free spaces, that I can work in without stress.)
IMC Switzerland
(regional group Zurich)
(only roughly translated into english - whole translation follows)
1) What is the male/female ratio in your activ IMC group?
in der schweiz wurde indymedia von 3 männern gegründet, wovon jetzt noch 2 aktiv an indymedia beteiligt sind. diese haben nie darüber nachgedacht, wie sie das ändern könnten und befanden sich in einer allgemein eher als "hoffnugslos" bezeichneten lage, was die aktive beteiligung von anderen/mehr leuten an indymedia betrifft. genua (diesen sommer) hat einen umschwung bedeutet: die 2 damaligen indymedia-macher sind nach genua "verschwunden", was dazu geführt hat, dass sich hier frauen "gewagt" haben, die arbeit zu übernehmen. genua hat aber auch allgemein einen umschwung für indymedia bedeutet: seit da ist das interesse an indy allgemein gestiegen.
(In Switzerland indymedia was founded by three men, from which two are still actively involved now. These never thought about, how to change this and they found themselves generally in a rather „hopeless“ situation, concerning the active participation of other people at indymedia. Genua (this summer) meant a change: the two indymedia makers disappeared to Genua, which had the effect, that women dared to take up the work. Genua generally meant a change: Since then the interest in indymedia raised in general.)
3) Do you notice any gender specific work organization?
nein, wir können keine typische geschlechterspezifische arbeitsteilung feststellen. Bei uns ist die arbeit in etwa so aufgeteilt:- schreiben von beiträgen: gleichmässig / gleichwertig- programmieren / technik: 3, davon 1 frau. (in diesem gebiet seit kurzem von frau initierter weiterbildungskurs für alle indymedias, um uns gegenseitig zu helfen/schulen)- e-mails beantworten (administratives im hintergrund, "aufrecht erhaltendes"): gleiche, wie programmiern / technik. dies hängt unserer meinung nach vor allem mit der infrastruktur (computer, zugang zum netz) und sprach(englisch)-kenntnissen zusammen. traditionellerweise arbeiten bis jetzt mehr männer auf dem computer (was z.b. auch zugang während der arbeitszeit bedeutet).
No, we can not see any gender specific work organistion. (whole translation follows)
4) If there is gender specific work organization, what do you think are the reasons?
wir stellen eher altersbedingte (auch im zusammenhang mit geschlecht) unterschiede statt. dies scheint in deinen fragen aber zu fehlen. während der diskussion gefallenes statement (von einer frau): "wir haben in der schule noch auf schifertafeln geschrieben...".
(We see more difference in connection with age (also connected with gender). This semms to be missing in your questions. During the discussion a women said: „We learned to write in school on slates.“)
5) What is the societal background? How is the participation of women in new technologies in your country in general?
informatik oder computer-arbeit ist bei uns (in der schweiz) klar ein männerjob! die frauenbeteiligung liegt etwa bei 10 - 20%. wir bezeichnen unsere indymedia gruppe als sehr heterogen (alter, job, ...):- 3 befinden sich in ausbildung (2 männer, 1 frau)- 2 arbeiten im sozialbereich (2 frauen)- 5 haben einen computer-job (2 frauen, 3 männer), 2 davon in ausbildung (1 frau, 1 mann))- alter liegt zwischen 18 und 56 jahren
6) How is the situation in other leftist groups in your country/ city that don’t use computer technology? Do you see a difference to your group?
wir sehen keine grossen unterschiede. wir schätzen diese situation in zürich / der schweiz etwa so ein: innerhalb der gruppen ist das (zahlenmässige) verhältnis oft ausgeglichen oder es hat mehr frauen. wenn es um gruppenübergreifendes geht (sitzungen, nach aussen, ...) sind die männer oft mehr vertreten bzw. reissen die klappe weiter auf. wir haben uns bei dieser frage noch überlegt, weshalb indymedia bis jetzt nicht mit ausländischen menschen (migrantInnen) zusammenarbeitet. vielleicht liegt das an- der sprache?- technik? - der offenheit von indymedia? (mehr repression in herkunftsland?)- generell fehlender kontakt?7)nein. was dabei vielleicht zu bemerken ist, ist dass leute, die sonst in der linken "szene" sind und sich auch sonst sehen und kennen, oft über "anderes" (nicht indy spezifisches)diskutieren, was andere ausschliesst.
8) Besides gender specific work organization are there other forms of sexist discrimination?
nein.
9) Does this differ from groups that don’t work with computer technologies?
nein.
10) Are there people taking action, if gender discrimination occures?
erfahrung innerhalb der gruppe nicht gemacht. (höchstens bei kommentaren auf indymedia).
11) How do males (or females) react when gender discrimination is brought up as a topic?
wir würden reagieren oder sagen das jetzt.
12) Do you have any “tools” that minimise discrimination?
gegenseitige schulung, um geschlechterspezifische arbeitsteilung zu vermeiden (wurde bei uns, aber eigentlich nicht aus diesem grund gemacht)- schauen, dass es (gleich viele) frauen in der gruppe hat (ist bei uns nicht aus diesem grund geschehen)
13) What do you think could be done to minimise gender discrimination?
mehr zur diskussion / zum thema machen (auch auf indymedia)
14) If there is no relevant gender discrimination: How did you manage that?
keine ahnung was wir als frage noch als interessant empfunden hätte, wäre die frage nach der motivation, an indy teilzunehmen bzw. ob dies geschlechterspezifisch ist. dies konnten wir bei uns jedoch nicht feststellen. nach der diskussion ist uns jetzt aufgefallen, dass sich die frauen mehr als die männer geäussert haben.
IMC Athens
If there are few women in your group, did you ever think about the reasons and how to change the ratio?
There are indeed only a few women participating in imc-athens. At the moment the balance would be one woman to every three men. The limited participation of women was present as a feeling. This questionnaire was a good opportunity to touch on the subject. However, we don’t have any definite proposals on how to get more women involved in the group. There is a need for more people, both men and women, to get involved in the group.
Do you notice any gender specific work organization? (e.g. women write articles, men do the programming?)
The group is quite young; it is only three months old. It could be of some importance that the team that started the project consisted of five men; three women joined closely after. Women involved in Indymedia know of computers, but lack in knowledge of more specific “technical” programs. This is responsible for their participation in things they know better, such as translation work, group discussions and publishing, while they get to know more on technical issues.
If there is gender specific work organization, what do you think are the reasons? (e.g. women don't know how to do programming, women don't own computers, women don't like computers, men are not creative, but more rational, men don't let women do computer stuff) 5. What is the societal background? How is the participation of women in new technologies in your country in general?
Indymedia uses very new technologies and it requires some time to get familiar to using them. It is also important that at a high percentage women’s knowledge of computers is centered on programs of administrative support. Participation of women in new technologies is particularly high in graphic arts and graphics. Moreover, the introduction of technology in public education is very recent, and women, but men as well, who use these technologies are basically self-taught. The above reasons that are listed in question 4 exist to the degree that are related to class inequalities or personal choices.
How is the situation in other leftist groups in your country/ city that don't use computer technology? Do you see a difference to your group?
In most greek leftist political groups there is obvious male dominance. Sexist attitudes are commonplace, most people ignore discussions on sexism; feminism is undervalued and treated negatively by both men and women. There is a lot of confusion regarding feminism and lack of information concerning the variety of feminist theories.
Athens Indymedia is certainly an open group and intentions are good.
Besides gender specific work organization are there other forms of sexist discrimination? (e.g. no one listens to what women have to say...)
No
Does this differ from groups that don't work with computer technologies? If you see a difference, what could be the reasons for it?
It could be possible that the use of technology and the participation of women would open up a group that uses technology more than a group that does not.
Has gender discrimination ever been a topic on your IMC meetings/ mailing lists?
This is the first time that gender participation in the group is discussed. We have however discussed the writing down of both grammatical types for male and female in texts coming from the editorial and translators’ groups of athens Indymedia.
How do males (or females) react when gender discrimination is brought up as a topic?
Concerning the questionnaire, we had different responses:
- Some women did not participate in the discussion
- Some men felt embarrassed discussing the topic
- Some women and some men found the questionnaire provocative and aggressive
- Some men suggested the questionnaire should be answered by women only
Finally, it was decided to form a group of people interested in answering the questionnaire and making a first draft. This draft would be passed on to the mailing lists where it would be further discussed. The group that was formed was mixed.
Are there people taking action, if gender discrimination occures?
In case such a problem occurs, there are people in the group that would take action.
Do you have any "tools" that minimize discrimination?
We do not have any specific tools other than open discussions, the openness of the group and the respect to the individual.
Indymedia ist eine Veröffentlichungsplattform, auf der jede und jeder selbstverfasste Berichte publizieren kann. Eine Überprüfung der Inhalte und eine redaktionelle Bearbeitung der Beiträge finden nicht statt. Bei Anregungen und Fragen zu diesem Artikel wenden sie sich bitte direkt an die Verfasserin oder den Verfasser.
(Moderationskriterien von Indymedia Deutschland)
(Moderationskriterien von Indymedia Deutschland)
Ergänzungen